Portion of Butterfield Road Opened to Public

BST September 16, 2012 at 03:42 pm

you are crazy if you think it wouldn't impact traffic!!!
I don't get why everyone wants to bring all this traffic thru areas of residential neighborhoods. It is crazy...would you like THOUSANDS of cars going past your house daily or even behind your house as you stated it would go....No I don't think so!! That area,meadowview,is zoned for horses/livestock living and thus it means, Country living...not for cars driving thru all hours. I don't live in Meadowview, nor do I know anyone living there, BUT i live near there and already have traffic barreling thru my area to avoid Rancho California traffic...enough is enough...people just need to realize that traffic is the results to all this house building,buisness building that most everyone wants to make Temecula a popular city!!!! I don't want it, and don't vote for anyone that wants to continue to expand this city!!!!

In the Temecula Sun September 16, 2012 at 05:06 pm

I agree with you on this one, but unfortunately there has been a bitter battle fought by the residents who have won as it would be a very busy road. From what I can gather this portion will NEVER be completed.

Diane September 16, 2012 at 05:31 pm

That's funny,,,I too was looking for the map...

LBY September 16, 2012 at 05:46 pm

It's like that everywhere!! The world around us is constantly changing! I remember San Diego, Orange and LA counties MANY, MANY years ago. It's crazy to see how much growth there has been. Especially living in So Cal you have to expect growth. Even a small town in the Mid-west has growth, albeit at a much slower rate. We all expect (and demand) the most from our public services, but they have to pay for it somehow and that's by welcoming more people and businesses. You can't have your cake and eat it too!! What we really need is more TOLERANCE!!!

BST September 16, 2012 at 06:14 pm

@LBY.... and SO that means it HAS to be that way here too!!
Alot of people that moved here did so to get AWAY from all that crap!! Most people I know that have been here a long time moved here for that very reason...and now they are very disappointed in where the direction this City has gone. YOu must be on the City payroll, because your statements mimic their thoughts exactly...etc. Just like they and Riverside County, want to expand Wine country and make it an amusment park setting!! Seriously, that was/is not the idea the wineries want or wanted. The growth here has more than doubled in the 7 yrs I have lived here...DOUBLED...the entire area over near Pechanga,Morgan Hill,homes along 79 etc were not there..it was fields...just Redhawk area was there... There are many many buildings,buisness parks, just sitting..empty for the last 7 yrs...for what? They are eye sores... CRIME is so high now...and it wasn't even 5 yrs ago....now I don't dare leave garage door open, dogs outside when gone etc...and I live near Temeku...nice area... you stated, many many years ago other county's were small, well...Temecula was small and it was only 10-15yrs ago....or even 6 yrs ago!! So, you can go and move to those Counties since you enjoy and demand the traffic etc.... go for it and leave Temecula uncongested..The more thru roads we continue to put in neighborhoods,the more CRIME will occur. that means lower home value,higher insurance rates etc...

LBY September 16, 2012 at 08:40 pm

@BST - I didn't say it HAS to be that way here...it just is! The sooner we all face reality, the less disappointed we'll be. I moved here from Irvine in early 2003, so I know how much (and how fast) this area has changed. My point was, in that amount of time, other cities have grown as well. I'm still at a slower pace here than if I was still living in Irvine. The bigger cities/counties have changed even more!
You seem to think you know everything, but I'm not on the city's payroll! In fact, I think that far too many cities (or the people who run them) are corrupt and the majority of politicians are liars and thieves. You say the wineries don't want growth. I hate to break it to you, but THEY DO!! Most are in business to make money! (How do you think the politicians, on any level, get elected?) I won't get into the increase in crime, here or anywhere else, but I can tell you that growth isn't the only reason for it! You and I obviously don't know each other, so PLEASE DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH! I do not enjoy (and demand?) traffic! I choose to go through life being realistic and then I can plan accordingly. We must all face the fact that this is our reality. If we don't like it (and can't tolerate it), we should move to a town with a population of 250. Then, when another family moves to town, we won't have to add another stop sign. You have taken this too personally and that wasn't my intent.

xiphiasallure@aol.com September 17, 2012 at 01:23 am

I agree - open General Kearney - it is a public street - Meadowview homes do not pay for the roads - they are not private - city councilmen live there - that is why !!

V.W.D.S. September 17, 2012 at 02:07 am

@BST traffic is here and it isn't going anywhere. All the city can do is to make the flow of traffic more productive throughout the city. Taking traffic through N. General Kearney road won't impact the neighborhood as much as it will relieve traffic through margarita and even butterfield stage roads. On any given day, many many commuters rush through butterfield stage road. Also, Calle Medusa (talk about traffic through neighborhoods! that is a total shame!) The backside of homes exist on N. General Kearney. Nothing Like Calle Medusa residents have to tolerate. It would be for the good of the city, and for the area if they completed that road - for the benefit of the majority of citizens it would serve. It is already there, already on the map - just incomplete and minimally so. Someone needs to look into why they are holding out. If it has something to do with council members, then we need to find out who - and why, and OUST them. Temecula is not their private playground.

V.W.D.S. September 17, 2012 at 02:14 am

6yrs ago Temecula was a busy hub. It wasn't until the market crash that many lost their homes and things quieted down a bit. It is now back on the upswing with homes being bought and rented out. and alot of the traffic we endure is people that live in French Valley, Winchester and Hemet commuting through our cities to theirs. You can't stop that. As for crime, . Crime is EVERYWHERE right now.

V.W.D.S. September 17, 2012 at 11:29 am

@ In the Temecula Sun - I hate that word - NEVER! I don't know much about why not, but if enough people make a stink they will have to do something. Imagine all the people it would affect, they cannot righteously say that it would not be for the benefit of the majority. If the councelperson(s) don't see that, and enough people are made aware, the next election can right things really quickly.

Jeff September 17, 2012 at 05:19 pm

That small section of North General Kearney should never be completed. Traffic should never be routed through neighborhoods…ever! Margarita, Winchester, Butterfield Stage, Meadows Parkway and every other 4 lane arterial in Temecula is where the traffic should be. We should be doing everything in our powers to minimize traffic in our neighborhoods…whether it be yours or mine. Enough is enough. People are cutting through neighborhoods because they don't want to sit in traffic for a few minutes extra. That's unacceptable. We need to make our neighborhood streets a place for people.

V.W.D.S. September 17, 2012 at 11:08 pm

They are cutting through neighborhoods because it is simply stupid to have to go all the way around when the direct route will get you there faster. I guess it doesn't inconvenience you so you don't want it. Neighborhoods like Calle Medusa should not be cut through - N. General Kearney is a much better alternative. I totally disagree with you and I am sure there are plenty of residents that would agree with me. You say 'never' like somehow N. General Kearney is smack in the middle of a neighborhood - it runs along the BACKSIDE of very large properties, is already paved except for a small amount - would hardly affect them at all. Besides - just look at the traffic on Via Norte! People use that and Calle Pina Collada to cut through to Margarita - N. General Kearney is MUCH more conducive to the flow of traffic than any of that !

BST September 17, 2012 at 11:32 pm

Private playground???
It's not the commuters that take short cuts thru our neighborhoods either,their playground. Why do we have to make roads etc for the benefit of commuters who don't live here,won't be inconvienced with traffic noise etc.. this is just crazy. All of this....the main arteries,Margarita,Wincherster,etc were made for the purpose of handling traffic...and those that must take them to get to their jobs don't like that they must be inconvienced by 5-10 more min..well they need to just take a look at themselves...since it is themselves that is contributing to the traffic... and it's not their homes that will be impacted by the added noise and danger of having cars at all hours of the day/night going thru their neighborhoods. If other roads were made to be used as main artieries don't you think they would have already been implemented? Hmmm. maybe just maybe there is a valid reason certain roads aren't complleted etc.

BST September 17, 2012 at 11:36 pm

wow, VWDS...you sure know everything!!
Must be awesome for you, you are the person with all the answers and everyone else is wrong BUT YOU!!!

BST September 17, 2012 at 11:36 pm

Thank you !!
Well put!!

BST September 17, 2012 at 11:42 pm

stupid for who? you ?
well, didn't anyone ever tell you that you can't have everything you want in life!! and you mentioned traffic that is awful going thru another neighborhood...so why would you want that in more neighborhoods?? Seriously??? supposed to be improving this city,Temecula, not making it more convienent for commuters of neighboring cities. Traffic is awful, BUT it doesn't have to be. No one says that those driving THRU our city has to...it's THEIR choice period. why do others have to be 'put out" just to benefit those that don't live here,or pay local taxes etc.

Jeff September 18, 2012 at 10:53 am

V.W.D.S.- Cutting through neighborhoods because it is the most direct route…even if it runs behind homes is still a bad idea. North General Kearney is an afterthought to the traffic problems Temecula faces. Anyone that bought out east of Winchester should have thought about how all those homes would impact their commute, but home prices were so cheap no one cared. It really is a never ending cycle. It's North General Kearney now and when they build more homes it will be another street. And so on and so on. If I lived in Meadowview I would be screaming for speed humps, speed enforcement and other traffic calming measures. Traffic in neighborhoods should be residents of the neighborhood. End of story. People cut through my neighborhood and it drives me crazy. There are two huge arterials that they should be using, but for some reason they can't be inconvenienced, actually they perceive they are inconvenienced by traffic lights, and race through a neighborhood where people live and play in the streets. I sure there are plenty of people who agree with you, but I bet they are the nimby crowd.

tuleshed September 18, 2012 at 11:00 am

Wow. Temecula actually makes a needed, wide, safe section of road, that WILL arguably reduce traffic through other housing tracts, and people complain? Interesting comments. I've been following the new stretch of Butterfield Stage. I've already cycled on it and driven on it. You drive by about 2 homes on large lots. One is where the blueberry farm is. The other route from south French Valley to northern Temecula takes you through Seraphina Rd past about 30 homes and is longer. I'd say it was a fairly smart design. Thank you Temecula for this! Looking forward to the next phase! And better bike lanes too. (yes, bike lanes help reduce traffic and congestion)
For those of you who hate the traffic in your neighborhoods... Shoulda bought on a cul-de-sac. That's been the solution since we started housing developments in America.

Jeff September 18, 2012 at 11:21 am

No one is complaining about Butterfield Stage. That's where commuter traffic belongs. Traffic does not belong in neighborhoods. Most older cities don't have cul-de-sacs instead use a much better grid system of streets. Making cutting through neighborhoods ridiculous. I have no problem with people using the streets in Temecula, but given the huge number of "arterial" roads we have widened and built there is no reason for people to drive through a neighborhood.

V.W.D.S. September 18, 2012 at 11:29 am

BST you have the mentality of a 5 year old with all your ranting and attacking my statements. Cities need traffic flow, regardless of who is using it. YES you can place measures to limit the type of traffic that is not conducive to neighborhoods by placing several stop signs or speed bumps making it a slow progression, but to withold opening a public street, that is for public use from being opened because it might inconvenience a few is wrong. BTW - I have not personally attacked you in this discussion and you don't need to be attacking me because I am pointing out the obvious. Who are YOU to decide who should be driving through the city or not? It is a city full of residents that live in all directions - no one is asking that farmland or grape groves be torn up to make a freeway - simply completing a road - that is already on the books and mostly paved so the citizens and residents of this town can use it! Are you of the opinion that the family that lives at the top of N. General Kearney should not be allowed to drive through EVER? They have to drive all the way around just to get to church or the school? Give me a break .

French Valley Resident September 18, 2012 at 11:29 am

If you need a map, you probably don't live in the area that this expansion impacts. This is a much needed expansion that will cut down on traffic through the neighborhoods between Murrieta Hot Springs and Nicholas Road. The buses that ferry our students to TVHS will no longer have to go through the housing tract and hopefully our students will not have to be out on the road quite so early.
Many of the traffic issues would be resolved if the district school boundaries were redrawn. However, the votes and money that control that vote are the same ones that insist on road closures to prevent driving through their neighborhoods. Instead forcing the residents of French Valley to drive through housing tracts to avoid Chapparal traffic (the closer high school) to attend Temecula Valley. The city expanded a road to ease some of the problems and still people complain. You can't have it both ways.

V.W.D.S. September 18, 2012 at 11:43 am

BST - what about the increased traffic on Nicholas due to the new development that will come once Butterfield Stage is complete? Don't you think that impacts those homes that back up to it? The noise? You are so myiopic it is unbelievable! Of course you probably don't think about that !Mr. Frank - no one is suggesting that N. General Kearney would be used for Winchester commuters, putting controls to slow traffic would prevent that, but residents that live in the general area that would like to use a public road to get from point A to B without having to sit at traffic lights on Winchester and Margarita with commuters just to take their kid to school or go to church or shop at the Mall. Why do you suppose so many people travel up Calle Medusa? Because folks that live off Nicholas aren't going to go all the way around to Winchester. It is a shame that Calle Medusa is used and they won't open N. General Kearney, it is in fact used - regardless of your opinion as to who should be using it. It appears our city council would rather sacrifice that neighborhood than meadowview -

V.W.D.S. September 18, 2012 at 12:02 pm

I don't have kids in schools here anymore, but the school boundries never made sense! You are so right in your comments.

V.W.D.S. September 18, 2012 at 12:41 pm

which is why this irritates me so - since I have asked the question, the only answer i get is because some council member lives there - THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. And, if you look at why they are bothering to spend the money to open Butterfield Stage - its because they plan on developing it - so all you whiners about traffic are going to get even MORE traffic once Butterfield Stage is fully open because of the development!

Jeff September 18, 2012 at 01:16 pm

I think my point is that these streets should be used, but not for people traveling through. I often hear people complain about traffic in Temecula, but I just don't see it. Temecula has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars just to sync the traffic lights in town. This makes it very easy to drive through town. Have you ever been sitting at a light wondering why it isn't changing? Also people complaining about traffic seem to forget that they are traffic. They are making a choice to get in their car and drive. We should never close off streets like we did on Starling Street near Roripaugh Road. We should put in place infrastructure designed to promote walking and biking in our neighborhoods. This would allow residents to use the streets in their neighborhood to get to school, church and shop with ease, but discourage cutting through neighborhoods.

LBY September 18, 2012 at 01:33 pm

@VWDS - BST seems to attack anyone with a different opinion. It is possible to have a good debate without acting like a child not getting their way.
@ BST - Chances are, those who are driving through our city are also shopping at our stores, eating in our restaurants and contributing to our local economy. I don't know your situation, but I find it very hard to believe that you haven't taken a shorter route or cut through a neighborhood at some point in your life! This problem will never go away. All we can do is hope that we have voted for people who are willing and capable of finding the right balance in city planning. That way, everyone will be happy...well, everyone except you!

LBY September 18, 2012 at 01:51 pm

Many of our traffic problems aren't because of poor planning or an increase in the number of cars. It's the mentality of people driving!! It's the entitlement issues that SO MANY people seem to have these days. I see people turning left from the wrong lanes, just to avoid sitting in line at a stop sign...people run lights ALL THE TIME...they block intersections and cut in so they don't miss the light...they blow through crosswalks with pedestrians 2 feet away...the list goes and on and on.
Why is their time, appointment, job, family, etc. more important than yours or mine? Bottome line... Our roads (big and small) will never be safe with @$$holes like that on the street!!

V.W.D.S. September 18, 2012 at 04:45 pm

@ Jeff Frank - Yes this is what I am talking about. Also, I want to make clear that the street I am referring to is NOT directly through the heart of Meadowview open use area - perhaps there is a misunderstanding of what I am discussing. The street I am referring to is accessed from Nicholas - west on N. General Kearney - at the top of that street it dead ends to 50 feet of unfinished road with barriers - which meets up with a newly paved road that stretches 'almost' to N. General Kearney off of Margarita at the corner of calle pina colada and N. General Kearney - there is another very small section of unpaved road that would not impact Meadowview rural use - the road is there - on the books, just unpaved. Opening this road would enable residents to flow back and forth to the school/shopping without contributing to the 'commute' flow on Winchester or cutting through neighborhoods whose homes face the roadway.

Jeff September 20, 2012 at 05:02 pm

The 50' section you mention should probably get finished. No reason North General Kearney to Valle Olivera Street shouldn't connect. I'm a little more concerned with the second section you mention. The Nada Lane from Calle Madero to Calle Pina Colada/N.General Kearney…let me tell you why. Right now North General Kearney east of Margarita Road sees about 5,600 vehicle a day. Nicolas Road south of North General Kearney sees around 8,900. Both those counts are 2011 and not extreme. Given that there is a school, park and church on North General Kearney I think we should discourage this as an arterial. Winchester Road west of Margarita sees 50,000 vehicle trips a day and Margarita south of Winchester sees 33,000 vehicle trips a day. Do we want to transfer even a small percentage of those trips to residential streets? If they were to open that section I doubt they could control the flow well enough to minimize the impact to the community.
Traffic count information here. http://www.cityoftemecula.org/Temecula/Government/PublicWorks/Traffic/TrafficCounts.htm Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Meadowview community own the roads/streets in that community?

Adrian McGregor September 28, 2012 at 03:18 pm

Since 1988 Butterfield Stage Rd. map has been approved to be 6 lanes wide all the way through by the County of Riverside. Just for the record: According to the Final EIR for Butterfield Stage Ranch, Specific Plan #226, prepared March 1988 by RANPAC Engineering Corp, Temecula, Butterfield Stage Road between 79S and Pauba was designated a Artierial Highway (6 lanes) with a 110 foot right of way as shown on the circulation element map of the General Plan.
Roadway Design: Intensive urban uses shall be served by streets and highways capable of handling high volumes of commuter and truck traffic. Road right of way and dedication: Necessary rights of way dedications shall be made by developers as part of the land division and review process.