Hostile Act Toward Temecula Cyclist Called Felony

V.W.D.S. October 8, 2012 at 12:11 am

I challenge you to take your attitude out further into the IE and see what happens! Good luck buddy. You ride how you want. Your arrogance will eventually bring to you the thrill you seek. Its all about what you put out there...........

V.W.D.S. October 8, 2012 at 12:26 am

Mr.Huntsman mentioned earlier in this discussion that bicycle riding cannot be regulated by local government - Well the main idea I was expressing was regulating large groups of bicycles riding and obstructing traffic without a permit and I found this:
221100(a) of the California Vehicle code which clearly states local authorities can regulate and even prohibit "assemblages" on the highways. So Temecula CAN adopt an ordnance that prohibits this type of riding.

V.W.D.S. October 8, 2012 at 12:29 am

Rather 21100(a) http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21100.htm

V.W.D.S. October 8, 2012 at 12:37 am

And I think the whole point of this discussion is that we must all learn to co-exist. Bicycle riders can shave their legs and ride as arrogantly as they want. It puts their own lives in danger challenging vehicles by refusing to be courteous when vehicles are trying to pass, you do not know who is behind the wheel of the vehicle you are challenging or their mindset. It seems to me, that instead of riding like a bunch of jerks taking over a roadway, they would want to practice riding habits that appeared more courteous. The truth is many of us are offended by their sweaty asscracks and really just want to pass as swiftly as possible. Blech.

billdsd October 8, 2012 at 02:53 am

Why can't motorists just move over to pass just as they would a bus or a garbage truck or a loaded 18 wheeler or a tractor or a delivery truck or any other slow moving traffic?
This is the thing: I have been driving for 33 years and I have found it incredibly rare that I can't move over to pass a bicycle safely, usually before I even reach them. People like you keep trying to pretend that you are stuck behind bicyclists when you are not. This is really about your belief that you should not have to move over to pass. Moving over to pass is easy. I have done it many times. It's not a big deal and it's not a lot to ask.

Don W October 8, 2012 at 11:53 am

John Allen, the person quoted as an expert at cycling procedures says riding single file is the courteous thing to do (http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/chapter7a.htm). The League of American Bicyclists says that riding single file is the right thing to do (http://www.bikeleague.org/resources/better/advancedcycling.php).
As I've mentioned in other posts, I've found that there are two types of cyclists and drivers. There are: 1) The Majority of people who are willing, and wanting, to Share The Road. They are courteous, responsible citizens who choose to coexist. When I ride around town, I've found that the majority of drivers give way to me in narrow situations. Unfortunately, there are also: 2) The Minority, who's selfish actions cause friction between cyclist and drivers, sometimes with potentially harmful results, as in the driver stated in the article that started this discussion. Cyclists who are in this group are the ones mentioned in the posts above that increase the frustration of drivers and appear to give cyclists in general a bad name. The question is, to which group do you choose to belong? Those willing and wanting to share the road and coexist; or those who choose to be selfish and cause frustration in an already stressful world. Share The Road....

V.W.D.S. October 8, 2012 at 12:10 pm

Most folks do not mind or have any issues with the typical cyclist. It becomes an issue when large groups of cyclists get together and ride 4 wide and block traffic for miles as they do on the coast. If this becomes a problem here in Temecula, it might be in the interest of safety that the city adopt an ordinance that prohibits this type of riding without a permit. We CANNOT co exist on the roadways if cyclists do not give a crap and continue to practice obstructive and dangerous riding habits. It is THEIR sport, THEIR choice and THEIR responsibility. In the end, the one that gets hurt is the cyclist. Practice being courteous & responsible! I'd say the same thing to motorcycle enthusiasts.

billdsd October 8, 2012 at 12:19 pm

@Don W: The problem is that you are obsessed with not moving over to pass a bicyclist. It's trivially easy. Learn to drive.
@V.W.D.S.: Groups of bicyclists are never hit accidentally. It doesn't happen. It isn't dangerous, no matter how hard you try to pretend that it is.

V.W.D.S. October 8, 2012 at 01:06 pm

@billdsd - I didn't say they were hit 'accidentally'. Getting hit, regardless of whether it was by accident or road rage is deadly. You obviously have never lived in Hemet! Like I said above - keep riding the way you want - as many laws on the books as their might be, its not going to protect a cyclist from being hit.

David Huntsman October 8, 2012 at 01:40 pm

Interesting article on this subject:
http://www.fastcoexist.com/1680611/bikes-arent-just-good-for-you-theyre-good-for-the-economy-too

Judy October 8, 2012 at 02:12 pm

I ride often around North County and sometime on Rainbow Canyon Road. The road is not in very good shape. It has stones and gravel, thorns on the edges,& potholes. You need to have a lot of passing room while navigating the obstacles on the road.
If there is a bike lane, I'm happy to use one. But many roads are too narrow for a bike lane. They are also too narrow to pass side by side. Yesterday I did a little experiment. When I would ride close to the right inevitably cars would pass me at full speed with inches to spare. The further out into the lane I moved the more space a vehicle would give me when passing. I am not sure whether these drivers were being jerks.. but I think mainly I didn't make a blip in their consciousness. They are so focused on where they are going they don't see something on the side of the road and don't consider it. They pass within the same space even though there is not enough room. When I ride toward the center of the lane. Cars expect to see obstacles in their path and have more time to slow and pass with more space in the other lane. If I was riding with another person, I would still be in the same place so riding side by side doesn't take up more room. When riding with friends though I'd prefer if we were side by side to be better seen but usually someone goes faster than the other. So, the motorist will need to move out for longer or make more passes. A driver may be annoyed, but I'd rather be seen than hit.

Zak October 8, 2012 at 05:19 pm

Judy, I've experimented with riding far right and taking the lane as well. Most of the time if I am hugging the gutter the approaching vehicle tends to not move over at all. I tend to take the lane more often than not these days. I also have noticed that when I hear an vehicle if I look over my shoulder they seem to move over. That eye contact seems to humanize me in some way. People still drive and pass way too fast for me though.
Watch this video and tell me if you would let your child ride with you? https://vimeo.com/25215833

David Huntsman October 8, 2012 at 05:33 pm

Probably a good place to introduce California Vehicle Code section 22350, the Basic Speed Law, which reads:
"No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property." This is the law a motorist is ticketed with when he rear-ends another road user. (The reasonable and prudent speed being the speed of the vehicle in front of you, be it a car or a bicycle.)

Danny Wade October 8, 2012 at 06:26 pm

Meanwhile, little bike-mountable cameras get cheaper every day, and the justice system has your tiny 3000 lb car outweighed by several orders of magnitude.

Danny Wade October 8, 2012 at 06:29 pm

I don't agree that honking in itself is inherently hostile. A very short blast is enough. A long blast is bad news. Makes me nervous, hearing that from random cars, but less nervous every time. The day a long blast from a car horn could save my life, I will probably have been too desensitized by rude drivers for it to do so.

Danny Wade October 8, 2012 at 06:35 pm

When I'm driving, I don't consider it somebody else's job to keep me from freaking out.
Show us the law that says you have a right to travel as fast as you want all the time.

Danny Wade October 8, 2012 at 06:36 pm

Don't tell other people what they think. Just makes you look dumb.

Danny Wade October 8, 2012 at 06:41 pm

Judging just from what you say in your post, it's not cyclists who are the real problem, it's motorists who can't control their rage outbursts. The way to fix that isn't meek appeasement. The solution is to put vicious motorists in jail. I invite your attention to the above article, and to the fact that increasing numbers of cyclists mount HD cameras on their bikes. It's getting harder to get away with intimidation, assault, and murder from the safety of a driver seat.
Crybaby drivers like the ones in this forum I can live with. Ones who let their anger control their actions don't belong behind the wheel.

Danny Wade October 8, 2012 at 06:53 pm

VWDS: I've ridden exactly that way, many thousands of miles, in cities and small towns and open countryside, in winding 2-lane and roads as straight as a laser beam across the mighty desert. When will I get mowed down, Mr. Know-All?

billdsd October 9, 2012 at 02:35 am

I rode your way for three and a half decades and over 80,000 miles. I had close passes almost every time I rode. I had right hook and dooring close calls regularly. I even had a couple of collisions due to riding your way.
Since I got educated in bicycle safety several years ago I don't have unintentional close calls. I don't have close passes. I don't have right hooks. I don't have dooring close calls. I feel dramatically safer. You can pretend all you want that you understand safety. I know what works and I know why it works. I know this because I was able to admit that I didn't know it all and I could learn from people who knew more than me. As long as you cling to the arrogant belief that you know bicycle safety without studying it, you won't. As for the ignorant psycho drivers, we need to start putting them in prison. Helmet mounted cameras are getting quite cheap and I know of several convictions of road raging drivers based upon the evidence they provide. The psychopaths are no longer anonymous.

BBQ Chef Patrick October 9, 2012 at 12:57 pm

Just about 4 weeks ago I was riding with my 10 year old behind Walmart on our bikes and some bum in his 70's -80's model Ford econoline Motorhome swerved into me and clipped me with his mirror,
Whatta fool, I drive that route daily in my SUV and see the same Motorhome parked curbside , my son always reminds me saying isn't that the guy that steered his vehicle into you,

billdsd October 9, 2012 at 03:20 pm

People like this use fear to get their way. They are bullies. They are violent criminals. They are terrorists. They're fighting, using lethal force, for their right to not move over to pass a bicycle. It's hard to imagine anyone being more cowardly or petty or childish than to attack another human being with such overwhelming force over something so trivial.

Dax Von Blitzkrieger October 10, 2012 at 03:39 pm

That's funny and makes a very good point. You touch upon something though: People (fat or thin) spreading out within their group and taking up the whole walkway so they can enjoy a leisurely time of communion while others wait behind them and cannot pass without uttering "excuse me" loudly enough to jar them back into awareness. Yes, this is just as selfish and inconsiderate as cyclists riding two or more abreast on the roadway for no other reason than to socialize. This is being written by a non-motorized rights freak by the way, so fellow cyclists – no need to come at me. People, think of others. Be aware and courteous please.

billdsd October 10, 2012 at 03:43 pm

The flaw in your argument is the false assumption that they are riding side by side for no other reason than to socialize.
Most right lanes are too narrow for a bicycle and a car to travel safely side by side within the lane. Why don't you understand that?

Dax Von Blitzkrieger October 10, 2012 at 05:32 pm

billdsd,
I totally get that. You're misreading my sentence. I am saying that if you are riding two or three abreast for the purpose of socializing, then please don't do that.

billdsd October 10, 2012 at 06:32 pm

I think you did miss my point. Socializing isn't typically the only reason.
You're making a generalized argument based upon a relatively rare edge case. What is so difficult about moving over to pass a bicyclist safely? I find it incredibly easy in my current sports car and have previously found it incredibly easy in SUV's, full sized pickups and even moving vans weren't that tough. You guys put a lot of time and effort into avoiding the most trivial inconvenience in driving.

Dax Von Blitzkrieger October 10, 2012 at 06:50 pm

billdsd: I disagree with your repeated assertion that moving over to pass a bicycle or other vehicle is so very easy. Most of the time it's dangerous and stressful. You must be picturing a roadway where there is very little oncoming traffic, and where the road is not curvy or hilly. In that case, yes, it is easy – even to move completely into the other lane to pass as you insist. Also to be considered is the weather. It might be pouring rain, foggy or snowy, all of which make passing very difficult.
I'm mostly on your side, billdsd. But it strikes me that you are very idealistic and have the notion that there's a chance that people out there will one day start obeying the letter of the law. They never will. So we must use common sense and make the best of what is a very imperfect situation. I always try to know and follow the law – when driving a car, when cycling or walking/running. I do so in no small part so that I can be justified if I must argue my point in the case of a conflict. But I also try to exercise courtesy, empathy and even adapt my behavior to the particular situation that besets me. I try to keep myself safe while being good to others and perhaps being a sort of ambassador for non-motorized road users.

billdsd October 10, 2012 at 07:08 pm

It is easy. I don't really understand how you can think that it isn't. Bicyclists typically aren't going all that fast.
In the very rare case that it isn't, you wait. I've done it; not many times but I have done it. The world did not come to an end. I've had to slow down and wait for slow motorists thousands of times, many times not being able to pass for as much as a half hour on mountain roads. Bicyclists are much easier to pass than motorists. Are most roads winding mountain roads? Do we have a lot of bad weather here in southern California? Do you never have to slow down for other motor vehicles? The fact is that bicyclists inconvenience you far less often and for far smaller time losses than other motorists do. You can pretend that you having to go slow for a few minutes behind bicyclist is an unbearable hardship. It's not the truth. It's a dishonest rationalization for the delusion that you shouldn't have to suffer a trivial inconvenience.

Dax Von Blitzkrieger October 10, 2012 at 09:47 pm

billdsd: I'm not sure if your m.o. is to be extra dramatic and militant in hopes that it will do extra good in changing readers' minds, but I'll assume that's the case.
I'm thinking more globally than you in more ways than one. I am not writing you from CA. A road does not by any means have to be a mountain road to be curvy and or hilly. I'm not in disagreement with you that motorists must wait at a safe distance behind bicycles until a safe pass can be executed. It is indeed in inconvenience, and sadly, operating a motor vehicle engenders feelings of might and superiority, making an inconvenience extra unbearable. To be fair, I'll acknowledge that in cases where traffic is heavy and hectic, it is very easy for drivers to slip into a frustrated – even frenzied – mindset caused by getting stuck in traffic and the myriad frustrations that come along with trying to get somewhere in a car on busy roads. A side effect of this is the tendency to try to get ahead at any chance. The thought of having to slow to some 10 mph and wait behind a cyclist can seem unbearable. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just facing reality. I try never to drive because I despise what it does to people. Well, carry on and fight the good fight, fellow cyclist.

billdsd October 10, 2012 at 11:37 pm

I'm not the one being dramatic. I don't act like trivial inconveniences are monumental hardships. That's what the anti-cyclists do.
I'm not militant either. I don't make violent threats against other people. That's what the anti-cyclists do. Giving in to bullies only encourages them.